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Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org

Posted by gnexus 
mongrol
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
February 11, 2013 06:07PM
Even just a board with USB3 would do the job without SATA.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
February 23, 2013 01:20PM
Looks like the Wandboard comes very close to meeting the specs of this thread. It even has the SATA connector!

Unfortunately the low-end i.MX6 SoC models which it uses do not support SATA ??? :(

Come on guys. Give us a real Dual or Quad i.MX6 model that has SATA! We don't need the case.

We do need the SATA. . .
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
February 24, 2013 10:08PM
Quote

Even just a board with USB3 would do the job without SATA.

Okay. You then might be interested in the Ainol Novo7 Venus Quad Core 7 Inch tablet, or its 10" bigger brother, or the Ramos W31 10" tablet. They all contain the new Actions Semiconductor ATM7029 SoC (a competitor to the much delayed Allwinner A31, which reportedly STILL has kernel issues that need to be resolved).

The ATM7029 kernel sources are set to be released next month. I also would assume that it can boot from SD like most modern SoCs. The ATM7029 has a Vivante GC1000 GPU. It is not the most powerful GPU solution for Android. But it at least is close to Mali-400MP4, and it should have better Linux GPU driver support than other quad-core SoCs except the i.MX6. The Vivante GPU kernel driver has already been GPL'd and working Linux drivers are availlable.

The Android tablets currently available that use the ATM7029 SoC reportedly have relatively good performance at a reasonable price, especially when compared with A10/A13. They have better battery life than i.MX6q and are significantly lower priced. Although the ATM7029 doesn't have the excellent documentation that the Freescale i.MX6 does, the SoC might still be a good choice in the long-term if you are looking to install GNU/Linux.

The ATM7029 has USB 3.0. AFAIK it is currently the only ARM SoC that supports USB3.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 02, 2013 04:10PM
Having played around with a GK802 (imx6q), its not the best device but the iMX6Q is well documented and now we have some X GPU and VPU acceleration. See here
Did you see Samsung's upcoming HomeSync product ?
Provided it'll be well priced, I think this is the definitive answer.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 12, 2013 07:48PM
The specs. on the page you linked to state the SoC is running at 800MHz.

That AmLogic SoC in the specs. has WORSE performance than an A10. It has the same Mali-400 GPU.

You would be WAY better off with a Mele A2000 that is half the price. . .
Your ranting is somewhat amusing.

> Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org

So you want a website?
Or are you looking for a SBC?

> at less than $100 USD

That's an arbitrary price point you're making.
Comparisons to tablet PC prices are not valid, since they enjoy higher demand, economy of scale and offshore production.
Note that the low-cost Mele boxes have that same economy of scale (it's sold as an Android media box) and offshore production.
Historically demo boards and eval boards from chip manufacturers have carried a hefty price tag that reflected the HW & SW development costs, the high costs of limited production runs, and (IMO) a deterrent to hobbyist and other I'm-not-a-potentential-customer-I-just-want-a-single-board users.

A US$150 price for an i.MX53 SBD and accessories http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MCIMX53-START-R/MCIMX53-START-R-ND/2805407 is a bargain in my opinion that seems to meet all of your other expectations. But then I'm used to $500+ eval boards from Atmel, but Atmel does provide full SoC documentation (1000+ pages of operation and register descriptions) and ready-to-run demo code.

Regards
WildeGeist
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 15, 2013 09:55PM
I think this is a winner?

Habey BIS 6332B ARM A-9 Cortex iMX6 Quad Core.

The price however is not exciting.

About $200 US

By the time you get a screen or two up and controls, and power????

So the BIS 6636 sounds like a better solution to running Fedora and other F/OSS easily on relatively little power.

I picked up the MITX-6500 a week before the BIS-6332B came out, and that took the wind out of my sails for ARM. BUT, the iMX6 is a little different in that it has a lot of support like the Pi and Beagle. Te $200 might not be a bad price for something that could be around a little while.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 17, 2013 01:25PM
Quote

> at less than $100 USD

That's an arbitrary price point you're making.

No. That price point was carefully calculated by me and others for a reason. It has historically been the price point at which sufficient demand is created for the device to become feasible as a mass-market device, and not a "development board."

Quote

Comparisons to tablet PC prices are not valid, since they enjoy higher demand. . .
Note that the low-cost Mele boxes have that same economy of scale
Historically demo boards and eval boards from chip manufacturers have carried a hefty price tag

Well that is the point of the thread - to get the economy of scale. You have just reiterated my previous posts, which state:

We don't want a "development board." We want a consumer device that meets our specifications. This site was not created by Jeff for "development board" users and companies. As far as the majority of users here are concerned the "development board" people can simply rot in hell. Yes, they serve a purpose, which is to rip off corporate-funded ARM developers. But we are looking for value. This site was created for Linux enthusiasts looking for a functional ARM consumer device at a reasonable (read low-cost) price that runs mainstream Linux - and not just Android. It does not need to be designed for Linux. It just needs to be adoptable for our needs, which includes a fast processor and SATA, as stated.

It has already been proven that such a consumer device can be profitable. The Raspi, Dockstar and other Plugs, and also the dual-use Android devices such as A10, GK802, and others confirm that such devices capable of running both Android and Linux have significant demand, and can be very profitable due to the low cost of the SoC. We just want something better.

The thread is not meant to be a "rant." It is a challenge to the Chinese board mfrs. to step up to the plate and make some easy money by fullfilling our demand. Whoever does so first will win the challenge and get (lots of) our money. . .
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 17, 2013 01:58PM
Quote

I think this is a winner?
Habey BIS 6332B ARM A-9 Cortex iMX6 Quad Core.

It could be. . .

If somebody would simply take that device and re-market as an Android HTPC set-top box for $100 it would be a winner!
Big time!

This device is basically a Wandboard in a box with the quad-core i.MX6. It is certainly an improvement over the other previous offerings - if your price is correct. But personally I, and probably most people here, am very sceptical on the price and I still think that $100 is a bit much to pay over a GK802 just for an Ethernet and SATA port and a nice casing:

Quote
habeyusa
Enclosure Materials
Aluminum Alloy

They need to lose the Aluminum case. Make it plastic, or even sell the bare board. Get the cost down and sell it as a HTPC.

I'm still sceptical on the price, especially after seeing that it is aluminum. I would like somebody to please confirm the price, because at this point it is the best device so far, if the price is correct, and I just might consider trying one at that price.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 17, 2013 05:42PM
gnexus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote

I think this is a winner?
> Habey BIS 6332B ARM A-9 Cortex iMX6 Quad
> Core.
>
> ...
> I would like somebody
> to please confirm the price, because at this point
> it is the best device so far, if the price
> is correct, and I just might consider
> trying one at that price.

gnexus, do you think $200 is good price point for iMX6 QuadCore (w SATA, 1GBit Ethernet)? It seems the lowest it can go is around $150.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 18, 2013 01:27AM
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 20, 2013 09:02AM
Quote

gnexus, do you think $200 is good price point for iMX6 QuadCore

No. Certainly not! I think I've made that fairly clear already with my other posts. Under $100 is the ideal price point.

OTOH, that said, I think the Habey device is nice and might consider it if they drop the price to say, maybe $150, as that is about €100. But that still doesn't help the majority or people who are outside the EU. If they want to keep the $200 price then I suggest they invest resources in creating fully functional xorg Linux drivers on par with the Android drivers. If that could be done it would likely make the device worth the $200. Otherwise, for now, people are better off just sticking with x86.

If there was proven sufficient proven demand for a device like the Habey I think we could get the price to drop 50%
What is needed something like the Raspi site when it first began, with lots of Slashdot publicity. That would prove the demand.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 21, 2013 12:09PM
Quote

gnexus, do you think $200 is good price point for iMX6 QuadCore

Not when you can get TWO i802 GK802 Android Quad Core Mini PC Smart TV Box HDMI Stick for HDTV 8GB Bluetooth + RC12 fly air mouse keyboard for $109.99 / lot.

Not to mention AliExpress has a $20 coupon on Mar. 26th.

Boycott all the overpriced "developer boards." Don't buy 'em at their inflated prices. That sends a clear message.

Personally I'm just going to continue to stick with my Kirkwood-based GoFlex Net's, and the new Acer C7 as a MythFrontend, until something better comes along at a reasonable price. It would be fun to play with IMX6. But I don't need two, or a "fly mouse." I also need a new 7" tablet to replace my old buggy A10 Eken T-01 that was sold. But the choices are also still a bit too limited there. Currently the only quad-core one that comes in at a decent price is Ainol w/ Actions ATM7029. But, even if it really has USB3, the performance is not much better than dual-core RK3066 ones. Linux on the tablet would be nice, but not that critical. So I will wait there also for A31 7" tablet or similar. Tablet price must also be below 100 Euro.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 24, 2013 01:07PM
gnexus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Quote

Not when you can get TWO
i802 GK802 Android Quad Core Mini PC Smart TV Box HDMI Stick for HDTV 8GB Bluetooth + RC12 fly air mouse keyboard for $109.99 / lot.

Not to mention AliExpress has a $20 coupon on Mar. 26th.

I haven't ordered one of these, but I think the vendor is playing fast and loose with the word "lot" here. If you scroll all the way down to near the bottom, you see

Quote

Package include:

(1 Lot = 2 pcs =1pc Hi802+1pc RC12)

But I still agree with your point, and with the coupon, that's a pretty good price for both the media stick and the air mouse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2013 01:09PM by PhantomsDad.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
March 25, 2013 01:15PM
Quote
gnexus
I will wait there also for A31 7" tablet or similar. Tablet price must also be below 100 Euro

I almost have my wish there:
http://tabletrepublic.com/forum/android-tablet-reviews/first-7-inch-a31-quad-core-tablet-pc-icoo-icou7gt-review-3614.html

Current price is €111. They are still €11 short. That, and the reportedly poor battery life of the A31, will keep me waiting.

Just goes to show that we will get our wishes eventually. . .
John Walker
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
April 16, 2013 05:13AM
Quote
gnexus
> The ATM7029 kernel sources are set to be released
> next month.

Any idea if that source ever got released?
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
April 30, 2013 09:19AM
what about this:
http://www.iloveubuntu.net/52-system-module-var-som-mx6-demoed-ubuntu

Couldn't find anywhere to buy it though.
Rob van der Hoeven
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
May 08, 2013 04:23AM
Except for its price of $149 this board looks interesting:

Inforce IFC6410 board

It has:

Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 Pro – APQ8064
Krait CPU, 4-core, 1.7 GHz, 2MB L2 cache
2 GB on-board DDR3 (PCDDR 533MHz)
Independent Clock Scaling Per Core

802.11 b/g/n WiFi + Bluetooth 4.0
10/100/1000bps Ethernet

μSD card connector
eMMC 4GB
External SATA

μHDMI for HD1080p
LVDS
Supports up to a 20MP Camera MIPI-CSI2
HD Audio and Mic-in

Standard I/O interfaces including GbE, I2C, SPI, UART, UIM, GPIOs, etc. and on-board Serial Console and USB

Power: +5V Input Socket (5A typ.) NOTE: 5A looks strange to me...
Dimensions: 10cm x 7cm (Pico-ITx)
Operating Temp: 0 to 70 C

The company claims to have: Completely functional Android and Linux board support packages.
Could not find any detais about this....
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
May 10, 2013 08:28PM
Interesting boards, but Qualcomm... closed by nature.

BTW, new Beaglebone Black (A8, no SATA, only 512Mb Ram and 100Mbps ethernet),
but the price: $45

Rob van der Hoeven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except for its price of $149 this board looks
> interesting:
>
> [url=http://inforcecomputing.com/product/moreinfo/
> ifc6410.html]Inforce IFC6410 board[/url]
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
May 27, 2013 05:00PM
Just noticed there is a Quad version of the Wandboard that supports sata for $129. I think this is very recent. Freescale i.MX6 Quad, 2 gb memory, Gigabit ethernet and Sata.

http://www.wandboard.org/index.php/details
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
June 01, 2013 06:47PM
igbee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just noticed there is a Quad version of the
> Wandboard that supports sata for $129. I think
> this is very recent. Freescale i.MX6 Quad, 2 gb
> memory, Gigabit ethernet and Sata.
>
> http://www.wandboard.org/index.php/details

Looks very good. They claim to be open source. I'm wondering if that includes 2D/3D video acceleration and codecs. ??
Sorry for my bad english.

I was reading about the wandboard quad and I am afraid of lack of community support. I was searching some informations to know if I will be able to compile latest kernel (3.10rc*) but I dont find nothing the quad or maybe the wandboard duo.

With my old nas, a LS-XHL, I am able to download the latest kernel directly from kernel.org and compile it correctly. And I dont have much knowledge with linux.

I am trying to tell, there is no community like raspberry pi or udroid ... There is a groogle group, but is more to developers, not for a end user.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
June 14, 2013 09:23AM
Happy to hear there is now an iMX6 quad-core version of the Wandboard. Thanks for the link!


The imx6q SoC in the Wandboard quad has a good established community of users and developers. Tons of documentation on the imx6q is available. The board supports SATA, and is very close to the price point specified.


Currently, AFAIK, the quad-core Wandboard is the winning platform in our quest for a decent *board. Hopefully others will soon follow. In the meantime I would suggest supporting the Wandboard if you are currently in the market for such a device. Maybe with additional volume they can get the price down to our target of under $100.
gnexus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Happy to hear there is now an iMX6 quad-core
> version of the Wandboard. Thanks for the link!
>
>
> The imx6q SoC in the Wandboard quad has a good
> established community of users and developers.
> Tons of documentation on the imx6q is available.
> The board supports SATA, and is very close to the
> price point specified.

>
>
Excuse me my bad english.

I disagree. This is a quote of a message from wandboard google group.

Quote
The wandboard is a development platform. [b]The images we post in the download page are provided for convenience[/b]. A custom version for selected cases can always be compiled/modified by anyone when downloading the sourcecode.
Source

Are there some active developers for wandboard ? Yes.
Is there any official support for end users ? No.

If the target audience were regular users and they make something like udoo, maybe my opinion would be different.
But today, they only manufacture a device and deliver all the responsibility of supporting the hardware back to the buyer.

It's disappointing.
Re: Please somebody soon give us a decent *board.org
June 28, 2013 09:02PM
@ Lucas

You seem to have misinterpreted my comments:

I said:
Quote

The imx6q SoC in the Wandboard quad has a good established community of users and developers.

That comment refers to the imx6q SoC itself, and not the Wandboard in particular. The imx6q does indeeed have a pretty good developer community behind it, and Freescale offers plenty on documentation, in contrast to other SoC mfrs.

I know abosulutely nothing about the Wandboard in particular, or its forums. Never even visited it. So I can't comment on that. But I do agree with you that end user support for basically any embedded ARM device is sorely lacking.

Udoo sounds very promising. It has the same imx6q SoC, so my comments apply to it too. But according to their website:
Quote

Shipping to begin as soon as October 2013

Right now the Wandboard is the only contender that is currently available. . .
Ah. $99 starts the single core board. Bums.
utilite has support for mSATA, not a proper SATA port
the cheapest mSATA->SATA is $14 and not sure how it would fit
single->quad in wandboard along with 4x ram (.5 to 2G) and other features is +$50
and $150 should get you ifc6410 once/if it is available and S4Pro>>imx6q imo
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