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What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!

Posted by rkrug 
What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 30, 2017 04:29AM
I am more than impressed - I am flabbergasted!!!!!!

I just replaced Transcend USB 2.0 16GB Flash drive with a SanDisk Ultra Fit 16 GB USB Flash Drive USB 3.0 bis zu 130MB/s and my little Pogoplug E02 with Logitech Media Server is FLYING!!!!!!

Thanks people for recommending this little wonder USB drive!!!

Rainer

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 30, 2017 06:34AM
How much throughput can you get from this new SanDisk Ultra Fit 16 GB USB Flash Drive USB 3.0 bis zu from your Pogoplug E02?
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 30, 2017 02:41PM
Rainer,

> Thanks people for recommending this little wonder
> USB drive!!!
>

Glad you found a way to improve your LMS server :) remember to stay away from the Ultra Fit 32GB version. I have all variations of this drive, but the 32GB can only be used reliably for data, not as rootfs.

-bodhi
===========================
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Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 30, 2017 07:31PM
bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> remember to stay away from the Ultra Fit 32GB ver
> sion. I have all variations of this drive, but the
> 32GB can only be used reliably for data, not as ro
> otfs.

Thanks for re-stating that. I too noticed such a high satisfaction with USB 3.0 sticks that 2.0s are only used for spares now.
Also to add from my experience, PNY USB 3.0 sticks are great/long-lasting in headless units like Pogoplug, but short-lived in anything that has a graphics adapter (ThinClient etc). Don't know why. I prefer SanDisk now.

=========
-=Cloud 9=-
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 04:25AM
bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rainer,
>
> Glad you found a way to improve your LMS server :)
> remember to stay away from the Ultra Fit 32GB ver
> sion. I have all variations of this drive, but the
> 32GB can only be used reliably for data, not as ro
> otfs.

Thanks for pointing this out - I thought about getting one for my other Pogoplug which works as a throw-away ftp server. Do you know if the new version is better?

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 04:26AM
@habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How much throughput can you get from this new SanD
> isk Ultra Fit 16 GB USB Flash Drive USB 3.0 bis zu
> from your Pogoplug E02?


If you tell me how I should measure it, I will be able to tell you...

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 04:28AM
JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bodhi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > remember to stay away from the Ultra Fit 32GB v
> er
> > sion. I have all variations of this drive, but t
> he
> > 32GB can only be used reliably for data, not as
> ro
> > otfs.
>
> Thanks for re-stating that. I too noticed such a h
> igh satisfaction with USB 3.0 sticks that 2.0s are
> only used for spares now.
> Also to add from my experience, PNY USB 3.0 sticks
> are great/long-lasting in headless units like Pogo
> plug, but short-lived in anything that has a graph
> ics adapter (ThinClient etc). Don't know why. I pr
> efer SanDisk now.

The SanDisk works perfectly and is not that expensive - so I see no reason to switch to a different make. It is fascinating that USB 3 makes such a difference in a USB 2 port. Must be some internal logic which they did not b=deem necessary for usb 2.

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 05:03AM
Rainer,

This one is pretty fast. But I don't know if it would make a good rootfs, though. I've used this specific drive only for data in a laptop.

-bodhi
===========================
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Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 06:38AM
AFAICT, any USBx storage is good for a rootfs and is not rather good for a data storage. A rootfs is basically a RO storage while a data storage is RW. The more writes, the more a USBx storage gets worn out. If I had a fast throughput USBx storage, I certainly would prefer to use it as a rootfs.
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 06:52AM
@bodhi
Thanks - I thought you meant that you made bad experiences with the 32GB as rootfs.

@habibie
True - very true. I should looking into mounting certain directories from a HDD - but this little beast is so fast....

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 07:01AM
@habibie

Concerning throughput - sda is a seagate 2.5" USB 2 256GB hdd, sdb the Sandisk Ultra Fit:


root@lms:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
 Timing cached reads:   526 MB in  2.00 seconds = 262.84 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  86 MB in  3.01 seconds =  28.54 MB/sec


root@lms:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:
 Timing cached reads:   528 MB in  2.00 seconds = 263.95 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  86 MB in  3.01 seconds =  28.61 MB/sec

## presumably in cache

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=10k; rm /tmp/output
10240+0 records in
10240+0 records out
83886080 bytes (84 MB) copied, 0.296948 s, 282 MB/s

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=10k; rm /tmp/output
10240+0 records in
10240+0 records out
83886080 bytes (84 MB) copied, 0.283252 s, 296 MB/s

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=10k; rm /tmp/output
10240+0 records in
10240+0 records out
83886080 bytes (84 MB) copied, 0.296076 s, 283 MB/s

## presumably real write

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=100k; rm /tmp/output
dd: writing `/tmp/output': No space left on device
63186+0 records in
63185+0 records out
517611520 bytes (518 MB) copied, 13.9384 s, 37.1 MB/s

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=100k; rm /tmp/output
dd: writing `/tmp/output': No space left on device
63186+0 records in
63185+0 records out
517611520 bytes (518 MB) copied, 12.8749 s, 40.2 MB/s

## And now the hdd

root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/Music/output bs=8k count=100k; rm /media/Music/output
102400+0 records in
102400+0 records out
838860800 bytes (839 MB) copied, 42.8752 s, 19.6 MB/s
root@lms:~#

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2017 07:02AM by rkrug.
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 07:03AM
> AFAICT, any USBx storage is good for a rootfs and
> is not rather good for a data storage. A rootfs is
> basically a RO storage while a data storage is RW.
> The more writes, the more a USBx storage gets worn
> out. If I had a fast throughput USBx storage, I ce
> rtainly would prefer to use it as a rootfs.

That's really beside the point we discuss here!

The 32GB Ultra Fit is bad for rootfs because its booting problem. So when Rainer asked this, I would assume the question was whether it can be used for rootfs without booting problem or not. So my answer was I never used this 128GB drive for rootfs.

Now, your statement is USB drive is better for rootfs but not for data. IMHO, this blanket statement is wrong on many aspects :)

A high capacity USB 3.0 flash drive is very good for extending a box with limited storage. Using a high capacity and fast USB 3.0 flash drive for rootfs just does not make economic or technical sense. Rootfs does not need to be fast. It's data storage that need to be as fast as you can manage to have. Without the ability (or desire) to use a large HDD or SSD on a small box such as the Pogo/Dockstar/GFnet, the next best thing is a USB 3.0 flash drive for data. Especially, I dont think the modern USB 3.0 flash will wear out like the old faithful USB 2.0 drives of the old days.

Just my 2 cents :)

-bodhi
===========================
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Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 07:34AM
There are applications (like Logitech Media Server) which have a database and cache on the rootfs - so a fast rootfs (as in my case) makes sense for me and improves performance of the whole system. And this could be true for many applications with caches on the drive.I could obviously mount the path from another drive, but that would add complications and complexity which is easily avoided using a faster rootfs.

Thanks for the clarifications on the booting errors of the 32GB version. So the statement is that the 16GB is the best one for rootfs.

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 07:50AM
> There are applications (like Logitech Media Server
> ) which have a database and cache on the rootfs -
> so a fast rootfs (as in my case) makes sense for m
> e and improves performance of the whole system. An
> d this could be true for many applications with ca
> ches on the drive.I could obviously mount the path
> from another drive, but that would add complicatio
> ns and complexity which is easily avoided using a
> faster rootfs.
>

I would do the same for LMS (ie. for entertainment system we would not want too much complications).

> Thanks for the clarifications on the booting error
> s of the 32GB version. So the statement is that th
> e 16GB is the best one for rootfs.

Yes, I think that's version is the best I've used.

-bodhi
===========================
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Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 07:51AM
@bodhi

Thanks for the info.

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 12:20PM
rkrug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @habibie
>
> Concerning throughput - sda is a seagate 2.5" USB
> 2 256GB hdd, sdb the Sandisk Ultra Fit:
>
>
>
> root@lms:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/sda
> 
> /dev/sda:
> Timing cached reads:   526 MB in  2.00 seconds = 262.84 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads:  86 MB in  3.01 seconds =  28.54 MB/sec
> 
> 
> root@lms:~# hdparm -Tt /dev/sdb
> 
> /dev/sdb:
> Timing cached reads:   528 MB in  2.00 seconds = 263.95 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads:  86 MB in  3.01 seconds =  28.61 MB/sec
>
>
It looks like the performance of the USB memory stick is comparable to the seagate 2.5" USB 2 256GB HDD.

About a year ago (in 2/16), I bought some 32GB Sony Class 10 UHS-1 Micro SDHC 70MB/s Memory Cards (see my old post on item #3). I have used them with this MINI 5 Gbps super speed USB3 micro SD/SDXC TF card reader on both a Linux desktop computer and/or a Seagete GoFLEX Home. The hdparm shows their respective throughputs as follows:
On a Linux desktop computer:

[root@linux-ackw:/root 80%] # hdparm -Tt /dev/sdh

/dev/sdh:
 Timing cached reads:   2608 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1304.30 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 104 MB in  3.04 seconds =  34.17 MB/sec
0.124u+2.019s=0:16.89e(12.6%) TDSavg=0k+0k+0k max=4216k 226320+17472io 1pf+0sw
[root@linux-ackw:/root 81%] #


On a Seagate GoFLEX Home:
[root@GoFLEX:/root 32%] # hdparm -Tt /dev/sdc

/dev/sdc:
 Timing cached reads:   228 MB in  2.01 seconds = 113.68 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads:  86 MB in  3.05 seconds =  28.16 MB/sec
0.130u+1.810s=0:14.21e(13.6%) TDSavg=0k+0k+0k max=2944k 0+0io 1pf+0sw
[root@GoFLEX:/root 33%] #

>
> ## presumably in cache
> 
> root@lms:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=10k; rm /tmp/output
> 10240+0 records in
> 10240+0 records out
> 83886080 bytes (84 MB) copied, 0.296948 s, 282 MB/s
>
>
Just a thought: You may wanna try with a conv=fsync parameter to see if there will be any differences.
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/output bs=8k count=10k conv=fsync; rm /tmp/output
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 12:53PM
bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > AFAICT, any USBx storage is good for a rootfs and is not rather good for a data storage. A rootfs is basically a RO storage while a data storage is RW. The more writes, the more a USBx storage gets worn out. If I had a fast throughput USBx storage, I certainly would prefer to use it as a rootfs.
>
> That's really beside the point we discuss here!
>
> The 32GB Ultra Fit is bad for rootfs because its booting problem. So when Rainer asked this, I would assume the question was whether it can be used for rootfs without booting problem or not. So my answer was I never used this 128GB drive for rootfs.
>
> Now, your statement is USB drive is better for rootfs but not for data. IMHO, this blanket statement is wrong on many aspects :)
>
> A high capacity USB 3.0 flash drive is very good for extending a box with limited storage. Using a high capacity and fast USB 3.0 flash drive for root fs just does not make economic or technical sense. Rootfs does not need to be fast. It's data storage that need to be as fast as you can manage to have. Without the ability (or desire) to use a large HDD or SSD on a small box such as the Pogo/Dockstar/GFnet, the next best thing is a USB 3.0 flash drive for data. Especially, I dont think the modern USB 3.0 flash will wear out like the old faithful USB 2.0 drives of the old days.
>
> Just my 2 cents :)
>
I use many USBx memory sticks as a rootfs for 10+ years on a Netgear WGT634U, a Seagate DockStar, a Seagate GoFLEX Home/Net, and/or a PogoPlug Pro 02, respectively, to boot OpenWRT/LEDE OSes. The only reason I do this is because I frequently compile OpenWRT/LEDE firmware for testing purposes on my devices using some USBx memory sticks, instead of flashing it directly to the internal storage. As far as I can remember, all of the booting problems I had ever encountered was related to Linux kernel issues and none had anything to do with any USBx memory sticks. As such, any USBx storage, particularly a memory stick, will be better off used as a RO media, i.e. rootfs, YMMV. The faster your USBx storage, the faster your system will boot and the program will execute. When used as a data storage, there will be more R/W sequences that may cause more wear out, and any USB3 memory stick is no exception. Whether it will cause any problems or not is another story. However, I believe we all can agree that any storage, including a HDD and/or a magnetic tape, is subject to failure due to more R/W sequences. I believe you will understand why some people hesitate to spend their $$$ on any cheap refurbished HDD.
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 05:07PM
Take this hypothetical scenario and think it through.

Your pogoplug has 2 USB flash drives: 16GB Sandisk Fit (USB 2.0), 16GB Sandisk Ultra Fit (USB 3.0). They are pretty close in price. Both are around $US 10.

Which should be used for rootfs and which should be used for data?

-bodhi
===========================
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Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
January 31, 2017 11:11PM
bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take this hypothetical scenario and think it through.
>
> Your pogoplug has 2 USB flash drives: 16GB Sandisk Fit (USB 2.0), 16GB Sandisk Ultra Fit (USB 3.0). They are pretty close in price. Both are around $US 10.
>
> Which should be used for rootfs and which should be used for data?
>
As I pointed out before, the faster a USBx storage, the less time it takes for the system to boot and the faster a program will execute. As such, I definitely will use the USB3 for rootfs, YMMV.
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
February 01, 2017 12:05AM
habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bodhi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Take this hypothetical scenario and think it thr
> ough.
> >
> > Your pogoplug has 2 USB flash drives: 16GB Sandi
> sk Fit (USB 2.0), 16GB Sandisk Ultra Fit (USB 3.0)
> . They are pretty close in price. Both are around
> $US 10.
> >
> > Which should be used for rootfs and which should
> be used for data?
> >
> As I pointed out before, the faster a USBx storage
> , the less time it takes for the system to boot an
> d the faster a program will execute. As such, I de
> finitely will use the USB3 for rootfs, YMMV.

OK. I think I should stop wasting my time :)

-bodhi
===========================
Wiki
latest Kirkwood kernel builds and rootfs
latest u-boot-kirkwood builds
latest Oxnas kernel builds and rootfs
latest u-boot-oxnas builds
latest MVEBU Armada kernel builds and rootfs
U-Boot & Kernel Booting process
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bodhi's corner
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
February 02, 2017 07:18AM
Hmmmmm - im with bodhi on this one, use a good USB2.0 for the rootfs, and a USB 3.0 for storage.
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
February 02, 2017 08:11AM
My use case: no, as LMS runs on roots and stores it's data there as well.

Use case roots for booting only and data storage from other device: I am with @gravelrash.

Regular reboots: also usb 3 for rootfs


So it all depends on the usage scenario - but interesting discussion!

===========================
Blog: https://rmkrug.wordpress.com/

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): Logitech media server

1 x Pogoplug E02 (pink): FTP server only (throw away configuration - quick to rebuild)

1 x GoFlex Net: running OpenMediaVault
Re: What a difference a good USB Flash Drive makes!!!!!!
February 02, 2017 10:55AM
> So it all depends on the usage scenario - but inte
> resting discussion!

Exactly. Your use case makes sense because you don't want complication with LMS. Some application is prone to breaking if you change the path.

The normal use case: we are not going to boot up the box or start an application too often, but the data are accessed a zillion times a day!
The abnormal use case: However, habibie could decide to reboot the box 100 times a day just for the heck of it :))

-bodhi
===========================
Wiki
latest Kirkwood kernel builds and rootfs
latest u-boot-kirkwood builds
latest Oxnas kernel builds and rootfs
latest u-boot-oxnas builds
latest MVEBU Armada kernel builds and rootfs
U-Boot & Kernel Booting process
bodhi's u-boot GitHub
bodhi's corner
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