Looking for a hackable ARM thingy with native Debian support (not Dockstar or GoFlex )

Hi,

I reall enjoy running Debian on my GoFlex Net which is as of now the cheapest and the most flexibel serverv I've ever had. However, it already has to perform so much different tasks that I start thinking about buying an additional device. In particular, I'd be like it to perform all the multimedia tasks (DLNA, streaming, radio etc.) , which as of now run on my GoFlex Net.

My first idea was to buy a multimedia player like GoFlex TV or WD Live, but after doing some research I realized that such devices won't run Debian natively. Yes, they do run some kind of crippled Linux and you can even mod their firmwares to add some additional functions, but it's not possible to boot Debian just from the Uboot and then compile the mainline kernel. Moreover, their video accelerators mostly consist of some proprietary SoC chips and thus can't used without proprietary drivers. So far I wasn't able to find any multimedia player that would allow me to run Debian natively (not chrooted!) and somehow I believe that no such players exist. If you happen to know such a device, I'd really like to hear about it.

Currently, I'm planning to buy me an Iomega iConnect. From what I've learned, you can install Arch ARM on those and once the bootloader is unlocked properly, installing Debian will be a piece of cake. What is more, the underlying hardware is pretty similar to the Dockstar, which means that I'll be able to compile my own kernels without significant complications. Finally, those iConnect things seem to be rather cheap (about 50-80 € here in Europe) and have 256 MB RAM. Still, if you have some better suggestions, you're very wellcome to share them in this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2012 12:54PM by Vlad.

Vlad,

I also suggest and iConnect. I like it above the dockstargoflex, becuase it had een mini-pci half card slot in there, with wifi

So it's simple to replace the ralink 3090 wireless with an atheros card and make the antenna external.

Than you have a nice and cheap debian iconnect.

You can run the installer of debian to it without unlocaking the firmware

http://www.kroonen.eu/wiki

@Vlad:
Sorry for my ignorance but why Dockstar is running a "crippled Linux"? Can you explain?

twinclouds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Vlad:
> Sorry for my ignorance but why Dockstar is running
> a "crippled Linux"? Can you explain?

@Twinclouds, I don't think Vlad meant the Dockstar. It's the GoFlex TV or WD Live, which are multimedia players, that run a really old Linux system. The companies (Seagate and Western Digitals) forked off a version that is too old (e.g. Seagate uses 2.6.12).

@Vlad, have you looked at Cubox?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 02:25PM by bodhi.

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> twinclouds Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @Vlad:
> > Sorry for my ignorance but why Dockstar is
> running
> > a "crippled Linux"? Can you explain?
>
> @Twinclouds, I don't think Vlad meant the
> Dockstar. It's the GoFlex TV or WD Live, which are
> multimedia players, that run a really old Linux
> system. The companies (Seagate and Western
> Digitals) forked off a version that is too old
> (e.g. Seagate uses 2.6.12).
>
> @Vlad, have you looked at Cubox?

O.K. My misunderstanding. Sorry.

The iConnect uses the same Marvell SOC and uBoot. Essentially it's no different than a Dockstar.

The Wiki's directions even say to use the Sheeva files.

> patching file linux-2.6.37-iconnect/sheeva-2.6.36.config

Same thing in the end.

Vlad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> I reall enjoy running Debian on my GoFlex Net
> which is as of now the cheapest and the most
> flexibel serverv I've ever had. However, it
> already has to perform so much different tasks
> that I start thinking about buying an additional
> device. In particular, I'd be like it to perform
> all the multimedia tasks (DLNA, streaming, radio
> etc.) , which as of now run on my GoFlex Net.


Check out the raspberry pi

http://www.raspberrypi.org/

"An ARM GNU/Linux box for $25. Take a byte!"

700 MHz ARM, HDMI and composite video out, 256 MB RAM, usb 2, ethernet (on the $35 version). I'll be getting one when they come out, which is supposed to be in a couple of weeks. Will boot Debian. Supposedly plays 1080p no problem.

I'm hoping to use one for a MythTV frontend eventually.

@twinclouds
That's right, when writing about devices with crippled Linux I didn't mean Dockstar and GoFlex Net/Home. Those are fine, but unfortunately the current prices are simply too high. Apparently, when a trader learns that people can run real Debian on a consumer ARM device that he happens to sell, the first thing that comes to his mind is to double or even triple the price. That's sad, but I guess there isn't much we can do about it.

@bodhi
I've already considered some development platforms like Cubox or Beagleboard but those are actually even more expensive, not mentioning delivery and taxes which must be added to the price. So far IConnect seems to be the only proper Linux device you can get for about 60 € which would be more or less fine for me.

@hanker
Raspberry Pi looks damn sexy, but for some reason I highly doubt that at the end of the day it will really turn out to be that cheap. I mean, if the price indeed will be around 30€, I would probably be one of the first guys to buy it, but my inner voice is telling me that a more realistic price would be around 80-100€. Well, you never know, may be I'm just too pessimistic ;)

@Vlad,
You can get the Pogoplug Mobile for about 50 USD.

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Vlad,
> You can get the Pogoplug Mobile for about 50 USD.

Can Pogoplug Mobile directly take Jeff's Debian installation?

twinclouds Wrote:
>
> Can Pogoplug Mobile directly take Jeff's Debian
> installation?

I'm not sure. But the Pogoplug Mobile looks like the same box as Pogoplug V4, but with less hardware. Currently ArchLinux ARM is available for Pogoplug V4.
ArchLinux ARM installation includes UBoot installation. It seems possible to run Debian on it.

I think status quo for MythTV (Frontend) is it's only running on x86 and there is no port to any other platfrom (yet).

But you can use XBMC with PVR Addon. The PVR Addon supports diffrent Backends (tvheadend, vdr and even mythtv). XBMC is already ported to raspberry pi, but i don't know if pvr addon is included in the port.

@vlad i'm quite confident the Raspberry Pi will cost 35$ as expected, as they're already producing the first batch.. the problem is that you'll have to add a power supply and a case so it will cost a bit more but I dont think the 80-100 you're expecting.

If you want something hackable like dockstar you can take a look at Netgear Stora, check this site for more info http://www.openstora.com/ I've seen it on italian online stores for 75euro without sata disks of course. Keep in mind that the specs are (almost?) equal to dockstar (1ghz cpu 128mb ram) so if you need more horsepower you must buy something else (like the Raspberry Pi)

Ecio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @vlad i'm quite confident the Raspberry Pi will
> cost 35$ as expected, as they're already producing
> the first batch.. the problem is that you'll have
> to add a power supply and a case so it will cost a
> bit more but I dont think the 80-100 you're
> expecting.

The Pi is designed to take a MicroUSB cable for a power source and the $35 model that includes Ethernet has a power requirement of 700mA max. They specifically indicated that they intended for people to recycle their cellphone USB power adapters for the Pi since the majority of them do 5v at 0.7A. A power supply is probably one of the more trivial things to get. A proper case, however...

The price is pretty firm at $35. They're a nonprofit and they're doing this to give people a learning computer setup similar to that of the BBC Micro. It's a fun project to watch as it develops... but the real thought on a lot of people's minds: "This is a great Sheevaplug killer. Can't wait."

dharry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think status quo for MythTV (Frontend) is it's
> only running on x86 and there is no port to any
> other platfrom (yet).


Re: "(yet)":

I'm patient :)

>
> But you can use XBMC with PVR Addon. The PVR Addon
> supports diffrent Backends (tvheadend, vdr and
> even mythtv). XBMC is already ported to raspberry
> pi, but i don't know if pvr addon is included in
> the port.

From what I've read the current release version of xbmc only supports up to MythTV version 0.23 backends. My MythTV backend is 0.24. But I'm patient.

Thanks for the interesting discussion. Yesterday I ordered an Iomega iConnect
and a Nokia CA-42 cable, so that soon I'll have something to play with. I paid
about 60 € for both but taking into account that iConnect can run real Debian, the price
is fine for me. My main goal is to use it as an internet radio and upnp server together
with Logitech S-150 and a hacked USB photo frame. After having spent so much
time tuning my GoFlex Net, I believe that the initial setup won't take much time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as Raspberry Pi is concerned,
today I learned that its video chip is a proprietary SOC, which means
that there will be only binary drivers available :(
Even if people will eventually manage to run it with framebuffer, all the cool
2D/3D/HD acceleration features probably won't work unless you want to use
closed source binary driver. That's kind of sad.

Vlad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the interesting discussion. Yesterday I
> ordered an Iomega iConnect
> and a Nokia CA-42 cable, so that soon I'll have
> something to play with. I paid
> about 60 € for both but taking into account that
> iConnect can run real Debian, the price
> is fine for me.

The iConnect is THE EXACT SAME HARDWARE AS THE DOCKSTAR.
The Dockstar, the GoFlex, the Pogoplug all do run "real debian." You just
need to modify uBoot to boot from USB instead of NAND... exactly
what you will need to do with the iConnect once you get it.

rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vlad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for the interesting discussion. Yesterday
> I
> > ordered an Iomega iConnect
> > and a Nokia CA-42 cable, so that soon I'll have
> > something to play with. I paid
> > about 60 € for both but taking into account
> that
> > iConnect can run real Debian, the price
> > is fine for me.
>
> The iConnect is THE EXACT SAME HARDWARE AS THE
> DOCKSTAR.
> The Dockstar, the GoFlex, the Pogoplug all do run
> "real debian." You just
> need to modify uBoot to boot from USB instead of
> NAND... exactly
> what you will need to do with the iConnect once
> you get it.

I know all that, see my first post. So what exactly are you trying to say?

Hey Vlad, congratulations for buying an iconnect !!!

I have two and I really suggest you to flash openwrt-kirkwood-iconnect-u-boot.kwb on your device. It boot fast (between 5 and 10 second, it depends of bootdelay value) and its fully configurable.

This device has 512MB of nand and you can write emdebian or armedslack in. If you want to install debian I would suggest you writting kernel in nand space and have rootfs into a usb drive... Apt-get can be a really nand-destroyer utility!

Hi pazos,

that sounds really interesting. Are there instructions for flashing that openwrt-Uboot available
somewhere?

Here
http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1472
it is stated that iConnect has a rather recent uBoot, but I'm just wondering if
it supports netconsole? As for me netconsole is actually the most
brilliant feature of the Uboot, since it allows unbricking without serial cable, by just using
the usual LAN. So, if netconsole can be enabled on the stock uBoot, I might simply keep
using it, hehe.

My plan is actually to install Arch using the above mentioned guide so that the uBoot
is configured to boot from USB devices. Then I'll replace Arch rootfs with Debian Squeeze
(custom made) and try to boot with the Arch's uImage. If everything works fine, I'll grab
the kernel patches from here
https://raw.github.com/artekw/PKGBUILDs/master/core/linux/archlinuxarm.patch
and compile my own kernel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2012 09:03AM by Vlad.

Do you think to use netconsole instead of serial cable?... I have no idea if openwrt uboot supports iconnect but I can check if you want...

about uboot...

the author of the patch post in somewhere how to upgrade uboot from uboot's prompt. I don't like this way. I choose to replace uboot under a working linux distribution. In both cases is mandatory to have a serial connection to modify the stock enviroment.

Is simplier to hack your device before thinking on other types of installation, you'll only need your nokia ca-42 cable and an old cd-audio connector.

once you can see uboots prompt I'll suggest you two things!

1. give 1m for uboot usage

setenv mtdparts 'mtdparts=orion_nand:1M(uboot),3M(kernel),-(
rootfs)'

2. download armedslack minirootfs & diogo gomes iconnect kernel & modules. I suggest you armedslack mini cause it have all you need to 'talk' with mtd partitions (mtd-utils & uboot-tools)

When you finally booted from usb (into armedslack, or arch or...) look for correct partitions into dmesg and `cat /proc/mtd`

Uboot partition must size 1MB

...

Finally you can install uboot with
flash_eraseall /dev/mtd0
nandwrite -p /dev/mtd0 openwrt-kirkwood-iconnect-u-boot.kwb

everything should be fine!!!

Note that you need to rewritte uboot enviroment values cause we deleted them when we erased mtd0... If you are brave enough to modify uboot don't be worry about enviroment..

Thanks for the useful information, I'll keep this in mind. My iConnect is already here and unlocking it using
the Arch Linux ARM instruction was really a piece of cake. So far I can boot from USB flash drives
and I didn't even have to use the serial cable. As soon as I have more spare time, I'll create a proper serial
cable out of that Nokia CA-42 and take a closer look at the boot loader. If I manage to somehow enable netconsole
I might even keep the current one unchanged.

Hmm, as far as I can tell, the stock bootloader doesn't seem to support netconsole. Via serial
cable I made the following changes to the environment variables

setenv ncip 10.10.10.5
setenv ipaddr 10.10.10.6
setenv serverip 10.10.10.3
setenv ncipk 10.10.10.4
setenv nc_start 'setenv stdin nc; setenv stdout nc; setenv stderr nc; version'
setenv bootcmd 'run nc_start; run bootcmd_usb; run flash_load'

On my Linux box I do

sudo ifconfig eth0:0 10.10.10.5                                                                                   
sudo ifconfig eth0:1 10.10.10.4                                                                                   
sudo ifconfig eth0:2 10.10.10.2                                                                                   
nc -lu 10.10.10.5 6666

With this settings, netconsole works like a charm on my GoFlex Net with UBIT v0.6 but on the iConnect I see no bootloader output whatsoever :(

The problem is apparently that stdout, stdin and stderr variables are set to serial and are read-only, i.e. you can't change them via setenv.

Fine, as long as I have a working serial connection, I don't care much about netconsole. I guess my next goal will be a patched wheezy kernel. Have to change the arcNumber to 2870 for that. The original system will of course stop booting (it needs 1682), but I don't really care :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 05:01PM by Vlad.

If someone is interested in running the 3.2 wheezy kernel on iConnect, you might want to have a look at my post here
http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?2,6550,7040#msg-7040
Don't forget to set arcNumber to 2870. However, the original Linux (Lenny?) on the NAND will not boot with 2870.

It's worth to know that the stock bootloader doesn't use uInitrd. If you need it and you've used this howto
http://archlinuxarm.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1472
to unlock the bootloader, this issue is very easy to fix. I did the following tweak via serial cable

setenv load_ki 'ext2load usb $(usb) 0x00800000 /boot/uImage; ext2load usb $(usb) 0x01100000 /boot/uInitrd'
setenv make_usb_bootargs 'setenv bootargs console=ttyS0,115200 root=/dev/$(dev) rootdelay=10'
setenv bootcmd_usb_1 'run usb_scan_1;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_2 'run usb_scan_2;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_3 'run usb_scan_3;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_4 'run usb_scan_4;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_5 'run usb_scan_5;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_6 'run usb_scan_6;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_7 'run usb_scan_7;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_8 'run usb_scan_8;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
saveenv

So far I'm very content with iConnect. 256MB RAM, wifi, 4 usb ports and a slick case make it a very nice device for a reasonable price. The stock bootloader is in fact quite fine. I think I'll leave it as it is because at the moment I can't see any advantages in changing to an alternative one.

advantages from original:

kwb headers are fixed (look here: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.u-boot/69957 )
early_init is disabled # it means FASTER BOOT
support, by default, for iconnect arcnumber
it have a clean enviroment instead of a full-of-non-needed-stuff.

If you want to use iconnect's stock firmware you must keep original bootloader
If you don't mind about original firmware you can consider to upload your bootloader

in other post we are disscussing about solve 3.2+ kernel problems patching uboot. I check this on a pogo_e02, but I'll check the iconnect two.
When the new bootloader gets ready you can attach two more advantages:

support newer_kernel without modify anything
support for hush parser (gives you the ability for create custom scripts; for example , if I can found an archive from /boot/uInitrd I'm going to put it in ram address 0x001100000 and boot kernel at 0x00800000 with initrd at 0x001100000, else I boot kernel at 0x00800000' as jeff doozan uboot's does

Thanks for this extensive list, but I guess there's nothing of interest for me there.

pazos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> advantages from original:
>
> kwb headers are fixed (look here:
> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders
> .u-boot/69957 )

The patch described in the link is of October 2009. The stock bootloader is of February 2010. If you download the
GPL sources for the iConnect and look into the u-boot source, you won't find kwbimage.cfg. Do you have a proof that
the problem is still present there or can you point me to the relevant files?

> early_init is disabled # it means FASTER BOOT

I almost never have to reboot my ARM servers so that the boot time doesn't bother me that much

> support, by default, for iconnect arcnumber

To change the arcNumber via setenv I certainly don't need a new bootloader

> it have a clean enviroment instead of a
> full-of-non-needed-stuff.

This might be interesting for those who like to compile the uBoot themselves but I
don't think that I care if it's bloated or not. As long as it boots properly, I'm fine with it.

> If you want to use iconnect's stock firmware you
> must keep original bootloader
> If you don't mind about original firmware you can
> consider to upload your bootloader

I don't care about the stock firmware but a bootloader update is a risky thing
unless you have some JTAG equipment around (I don't)

> in other post we are disscussing about solve 3.2+
> kernel problems patching uboot. I check this on a
> pogo_e02, but I'll check the iconnect two.

I know, but that doesn't really affect me since I prefer to compile
the kernel myself. With the workaround proposed by davygravy and Robert
the 3.2 kernels compiles and works just fine. Once again, changing a few lines in
the kernel config is not as severe as reflashing the bootloader

> When the new bootloader gets ready you can attach
> two more advantages:
>
> support newer_kernel without modify anything
> support for hush parser (gives you the ability for
> create custom scripts; for example , if I can
> found an archive from /boot/uInitrd I'm going to
> put it in ram address 0x001100000 and boot kernel
> at 0x00800000 with initrd at 0x001100000, else I
> boot kernel at 0x00800000' as jeff doozan uboot's
> does

Sounds interesting but, as I've already mentioned, I never
use kernels without modifying anything :) BTW, even if
it works like you say, there's still something one has to modify, namely
disable mv_cesa. The module compiles and loads but the data it proceeds get
corrupted.

OK, i do NOT force anybody to do something that they not want! I just anwser your question about advantages. Anyways mv_cesa depend on the kernel, not uboot.

apropos kwb header, it still present on all kirkwood devices. uboot like jeff's one includes old headers and stills works fine, new headers have one more instruccion in ram initialization, but It seems to be affected only when trying to load HUGE files on RAM, and nobody seems to be affected here.

Congratulations Vlad, for your new device. Iomega iConnect is one of the best arm embedded devices ever...

No problem, I also appreciate your work on testing the new u-Boot. If I happen to grab a cheap JTAG kit somewhere I'll sure
give the new bootloader a try, but at the moment it's just a bit too risky for me.

Yeah, iConnect is really very nice, I just need to find enough time to set it up properly.

Vlad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @hanker
> Raspberry Pi looks damn sexy, but for some reason
> I highly doubt that at the end of the day it will
> really turn out to be that cheap. I mean, if the
> price indeed will be around 30€, I would
> probably be one of the first guys to buy it, but
> my inner voice is telling me that a more realistic
> price would be around 80-100€. Well, you never
> know, may be I'm just too pessimistic ;)

You are being too pessimistic.

The Raspberry Pi is only a few days (20th February is delivery date and sales will start shortly thereafter) away and they have said over and over that it will be $25 for model A and $35 for model B.

The only problem is not the price (or performance) but rarity. The first batch of 10000 wil almost certainly sell out within a few hours if not minutes but more will be along soon. You really should follow this project, it's very interesting.

PS This thing will run XBMC at 1080p - it will be quite something for the price.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 05:23PM by lotus49.

In the end I yet decided to update U-Boot on my iConnect. Big thanks to pazos for providing his useful instructions.

Here's what I did (from Debian):

su
apt-get install mtd-utils
cd /tmp
cat /proc/mtd

Output:

dev:    size   erasesize  name
mtd0: 00100000 00020000 "u-boot"
mtd1: 00300000 00020000 "uImage"
mtd2: 02000000 00020000 "rootfs"
mtd3: 1dc00000 00020000 "data"

Then

wget http://downloads.openwrt.org/snapshots/trunk/kirkwood/openwrt-kirkwood-iconnect-u-boot.kwb
flash_eraseall /dev/mtd0
nandwrite -p /dev/mtd0 openwrt-kirkwood-iconnect-u-boot.kwb

Serial output after first reboot

U-Boot 2012.04.01 (Aug 02 2012 - 13:43:02) Iomega iConnect Wireless

SoC:   Kirkwood 88F6281_A0
DRAM:  256 MiB
WARNING: Caches not enabled
NAND:  512 MiB
*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environment

In:    serial
Out:   serial
Err:   serial
Net:   egiga0
Hit any key to stop autoboot:  0 
iconnect =>  
iconnect => printenv

baudrate=115200
bootcmd=${x_bootcmd_kernel}; setenv bootargs ${x_bootargs} ${x_bootargs_root}; ${x_bootcmd_usb}; bootm 0x6400000;
bootdelay=3
ethact=egiga0
stderr=serial
stdin=serial
stdout=serial
x_bootargs=console=ttyS0,115200 mtdparts=orion_nand:1M(u-boot),3M@1M(kernel),32M@4M(rootfs),475M@36M(data)
x_bootargs_root=root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2
x_bootcmd_kernel=nand read 0x6400000 0x100000 0x300000
x_bootcmd_usb=usb start

To enable proper USB boot and activate ethernet I had to set following enviromental variables

setenv arcNumber '1682'
setenv ethaddr 'XX:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX' <- MAC
setenv  mainlineLinux 'yes'
setenv ethprime 'egiga0'
setenv bootcmd 'run bootcmd_usb'
setenv bootcmd_usb 'usb start;run bootcmd_usb_1;run bootcmd_usb_2;run bootcmd_usb_3;run bootcmd_usb_4'
setenv bootcmd 'run bootcmd_usb'
setenv bootargs_console console=ttyS0,115200
setenv load_ki 'ext2load usb $(usb) 0x00800000 /boot/uImage; ext2load usb $(usb) 0x01100000 /boot/uInitrd'
setenv make_usb_bootargs 'setenv bootargs console=ttyS0,115200 root=LABEL=rootfs rootdelay=10'
setenv bootcmd_usb_1 'setenv usb 0:1 ;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_2 'setenv usb 1:1 ;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_3 'setenv usb 2:1 ;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
setenv bootcmd_usb_4 'setenv usb 3:1 ;run make_usb_bootargs; run load_ki; bootm 0x00800000 0x01100000'
saveenv

So far everything works as expected!