How to tell which USB flash drives use wear leveling?

Like a Solid State Drive? One of you mentioned not long ago, some SanDisk 64GB had the same wear leveling chip as their SSD products.

With that in mind, there are sales at Best Buy this week, SD 32GB UltraFit for $9.99, but $15 for 64 GB. And if this affects reliability, then spending the extra $5 is worth it even though I'll be using tops 16GB anyway for a Pogo or thereabouts.

If there was a chart somewhere that'd be very cool, but I haven't found it yet.

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-= Cloud 9 =-

JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
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> Like a Solid State Drive? One of you mentioned
> not long ago, some SanDisk 64GB had the same wear
> leveling chip as their SSD products.
>
> With that in mind, there are sales at Best Buy
> this week, SD 32GB UltraFit for $9.99, but
> $15 for 64 GB. And if this affects reliability,
> then spending the extra $5 is worth it even though
> I'll be using tops 16GB anyway for a Pogo or
> thereabouts.
>
> If there was a chart somewhere that'd be very
> cool, but I haven't found it yet.

I've mentioned that the Extreme 64GB has SSD controller chip (some Amazon shopper reported this). But nobody has opened up the Sandisk Ultra Fit 64GB to confirm whether it has the same controller chip. The Extreme is extremely fast :)

But Utra Fit is not bad, I've confirmed that my USB 3.0 16GB Ultra Fit increased the Kirkwood plug with USB 2.0 boot time by at least 20% for me (depending what you have in your rootfs). Extrapolate this to other things in the system running, I think it is a good choice.

-bodhi
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bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've mentioned that the Extreme 64GB has SSD
> controller chip (some Amazon shopper reported
> this). But nobody has opened up the Sandisk Ultra
> Fit 64GB to confirm whether it has the same
> controller chip. The Extreme is extremely fast :)
>
>
> But Utra Fit is not bad, I've confirmed that my
> USB 3.0 16GB Ultra Fit increased the Kirkwood plug
> with USB 2.0 boot time by at least 20% for me
> (depending what you have in your rootfs).
> Extrapolate this to other things in the system
> running, I think it is a good choice.

Whoah thanks a lot Bodhi - I was fairly confused and didn't know if it were SD cards-only or what.

One thing for me, the only SanDisk ultraFit (32GB) I have is fast but runs a hair hot, so I'm fine with the larger iteration for the (possibly negligible, admittedly) heat dissipation.

Wanna talk voodoo science? I did a search at Best Buy, and you'll notice the red version of the 32GB SanDisk Ultra is 100MB/s while the black version is 80MB/s!

Somewhere between Winterizing chores I'll be visiting SanDisk support/chat and try to get the lowdown. But business hours being what they are, I encourage anyone to have a go at it. You might very well ask better questions than I :-)

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-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2016 06:13PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

Joey,

Becareful, one might be USB 2.0? I've only seen the Ultra Fit with black casing and red letter (USB 3.0). There is an Ultra version with a typical USB thumb drive case.

FWIW, the only flash drive that I carry on my key chain is the Extreme 64GB. It's faster than spinning rust :)

-bodhi
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-edited-

WOW! SanDisk Support says:

Sandisk: I am afraid we do not manufacture wear leveling Flash Drives.

Me: how about SD cards?

Sandisk: We do not manufacture SD Cards with wear leveling as well.
Sandisk: I just checked my resources and i would like to inform you that we have wear leveling with extreme pro cards. Here is the link:

Thought 1: Because Support initially didn't know any product didn't have wear leveling, I'd encourage someone else to try their luck asking them. Maybe they've learned something in the meantime.

Thought 2: For Bodhi: SanDisk are still exceptional USB sticks and were it not for their appreciation here I'd be blowing-out a PNY every 3-6 mo. I didn't think contacting SanDisk support would contradict anyone here; and again a support person's first call on a Monday morning isn't the final word still.

But it does reinforce Gravelrash and Habibie's adapters for the right kind of SD Cards that sit in a USB 3.0 plug.


Off Topic 1: Man, if only we could find a way to provide drivers at the initial boot stage in order to utilize a USB 3.0 allocation.

Off Topic 2: There's one trick up someone's sleeve still, that's to get an ExtremePro card adapter to mPCIE and see if PogoPro will run zippier that way.

The party is almost out of control Bodhi :-)

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-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2016 11:01AM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

WOW! Did you know...

The 32GB SanDisk Extreme Plus, which is regularly priced at $79.99 and on-sale for $14.99 currently - - - is NOT the same as the 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro, which is not on sale at $164.99!

I thought, even if I can't afford a TV box this month, maybe I could get two of those, one for next month's TV box but another one to run in GravelClaus's Pogo mobile present last year to show my long-term appreciation for such a brotherly gesture. But at least know I'm not letting that little jewel gather dust, and there are still many excellent SDcards I can substitute when I get serious about plugging that in for a couple years.

But for now, when you think of a poor man's 32GB SSD card for $164.99, maybe a high capacity real SSD with USB 3 adapter (note to self: I wonder if they make SDCard adapters?)...

Argh...

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-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2016 08:43PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WOW! Did you
> know...
>
> The
> 32GB SanDisk Extreme Plus, which is regularly priced at $79.99 and on-sale for $14.99 currently - - - is NOT the same as the 32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro, which is not on sale at $164.99!
>
For $164.99, you can get a 5 TB SATA HDD.

> But for now, when you think of a poor man's 32GB
> SD card for $164.99, maybe a high capacity real
> SSD with USB 3 adapter (note to self: I wonder if
> they make SDCard adapters?)...
>
> Argh...

Joey, afaik, only the 64GB Sandisk Extreme USB 3.0 has wear leveling. The 32GB version probably not.

If you dont need the small size, get the a SSD and a USB 3.0 2.5" enclosure.

-bodhi
===========================
Forum Wiki
bodhi's corner (buy bodhi a beer)

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But for now, when you think of a poor man's
> 32GB
> > SD card for $164.99, maybe a high capacity real
> > SSD with USB 3 adapter (note to self: I wonder
> if
> > they make SDCard adapters?)...
> >
> > Argh...
>
> Joey, afaik, only the 64GB Sandisk Extreme USB 3.0
> has wear leveling. The 32GB version probably not.
>
> If you dont need the small size, get the a SSD and
> a USB 3.0 2.5" enclosure.
>
This ORICO Transparent HDD Case 2.5 inch USB3.0 to Sata may fit the bill?

habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This
> [url=https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ORIC
> O-Transparent-HDD-Case-2-5-inch-USB3-0-to-Sata-3-0
> -Tool-Free-5/1938249_32757373242.html]ORICO
> Transparent HDD Case 2.5 inch USB3.0 to Sata[/url]
> may fit the bill?

The Pogoplug Mobile has two ports, the SD card slot and USB port. So the idea was to get an SD cards for the business end of it.

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-= Cloud 9 =-

I was using SDHC cards on rPi, and I am tired of burning cards every 6 months. So, I was advised to buy MMC, but I wanted to be sure they are better than SD. And I found this page.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140805113601/http://www.toshiba.com/taec/Catalog/Line.do?familyid=7&lineid=900195
states:
e-MMC products integrates NAND flash memory and a controller chip in a single package to perform error corrections, wear leveling and bad-block
This means, all eMMC cards include Wear Leveling.

So, in emergency, I have bought an eMMC card plus the micro SD adapter on Amazon. Now, I am still looking for wear leveling in SD cards. For now, I have found various contradictory peaces of information. For SD and SDHC, each manufacturer was free to do any mess; it's said (but I have not found any proof yet) that SDXC implies WL.

This item states it can do WL:
Delkin Devices 32 GB MicroSDHC 660X UHS-I U3 Memory Card
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00NQX1F6G
(SDHC UHS-1 U3)

https://www.sandisk.fr/oem-design/industrial/industrial-cards
Sandisk Industrial are given for 192TB written ...

Out of those OEM-industrial cards (which are not supported by the official chat room), using any standard end user Sandisk card ( https://www.sandisk.fr/home/memory-cards ) in an rPi breaks the waranty. Still, for booting an rPi, they recommend the High Endurance stream (which is also called video surveillance https://www.sandisk.fr/home/memory-cards/microsd-cards/high-endurance-microsd ). Both are SDXC white-white; but the industrial has the word industrial written on it.

I was said that eMMC probably includes a better WL algorythm than any micro SD card. I can't proof check it.

Here is what I have been said by the Sandisk support chat:
- all Sandisk cards do WL; but knowing which WL algorythm is used is an industrial secret. Ultra cards do it, even if it's not mentionned on the product page (it's officially written on the Extreme page).
- here is the complete list of end-user items https://www.sandisk.fr/home/memory-cards ; they all should include WL, and are all supported by the live chat
- the OEM cards are not supported by the live chat; in example the Industrial range: https://www.sandisk.fr/oem-design/industrial/industrial-cards . For OEM cards, support should be seeked at the reseller.
- any end-user card inserted in an rPi looses it's waranty
- when you have an rPi, and want to insert some stuff in the SD hole, it's recommended to choose a High Endurance model (also called video-surveillance) https://www.sandisk.fr/home/memory-cards/microsd-cards/high-endurance-microsd . They are very similar to industrial cards, except they don't have the INDUSTRIAL word.

It was impossible for me to get them tell me the percentage of hidden reserved space (used for reallocation when a block is found dead).

I have found someone providing the same feedback about sandisk here:
https://reprage.com/post/what-are-the-best-sd-cards-to-use-in-a-raspberry-pi
for the fact using their cards in a rPi voids the waranty, but they still recommend high endurance ...