Pogoplug - uBoot Debian vs Stock

Hi, When I got my pogoplug I installed uBoot on my pogoplug to run debian because I thought I had to; now I reallize this might have been a mistake. Pogoplug seems to run a weird proprietary version of linux, is this right? Can I run regular commands like move, copy, link, etc? It is also essential that I can set up some form of Wake-on-LAN/WAN, so I need to be able to install the required modules and be able to enter hibernate/sleep/standby. Can this be done in stock pogoplug, or is Debian required to do this kind of thing?

Ancient Abysswalker,

> Hi, When I got my pogoplug I installed uBoot on my
> pogoplug to run debian because I thought I had to;
> now I reallize this might have been a mistake.

Stock u-boot is very limited, so any thing new is better.

> Pogoplug seems to run a weird proprietary version
> of linux, is this right? Can I run regular
> commands like move, copy, link, etc?

Stock Pogo OS is their build of Linux 2.6.x. The commands are not different. All Linux system have the same set of commands. Smaller build such as stock Pogo has less commands installed, but they are the same as any other Linux system.

> It is also
> essential that I can set up some form of
> Wake-on-LAN/WAN, so I need to be able to install
> the required modules and be able to enter
> hibernate/sleep/standby. Can this be done in stock
> pogoplug, or is Debian required to do this kind of
> thing?

There is no WOL on a typical pogoplug (the board does not support it). Even with my Debian build, it is not possible.

Some larger Marvell based boxes such as NSA310S/320S/325 do have WOL.

-bodhi
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Good to know. I might revert to linux then, as the USB takes up space. Hmm... Unfortunate. Do you know of any alternatives that might work - like a PIC chip or anything else in general? I only need to have the box run for a few hours once a month or something like that for backup purposes, so I thought WOL was a good option. :/

Wait, you said the pogoplug linux is stripped down. Does it support rSync or is that only with a newer distro like your debian?

Ancient Abysswalker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, When I got my pogoplug I installed uBoot on my
> pogoplug to run debian because I thought I had to;
> now I reallize this might have been a mistake.
> Pogoplug seems to run a weird proprietary version
> of linux, is this right? Can I run regular
> commands like move, copy, link, etc? It is also
> essential that I can set up some form of
> Wake-on-LAN/WAN, so I need to be able to install
> the required modules and be able to enter
> hibernate/sleep/standby. Can this be done in stock
> pogoplug, or is Debian required to do this kind of
> thing?
>
To answer your question, let's take a closer look at what is a Pogoplug OS. It is nothing but just a Linux embedded OS based on BuildRoot -- a tool that simplifies and automates the process of building a complete Linux system for an embedded system, using cross-compilation. In it, it has busybox -- a Swiss Army Knife of Embedded Linux -- software that comprises of many Linux/Un*x utilities in a single small executable file. This includes cp (copy), mv (move or rename), tar, etc. Manufacturer for Linux embedded devices with a limited internal storage, like most old WiFi routers, will strip down to not include some unnecessary Linux/Un*x utilities in its firmware fit into the internal storage. Because of that, it is not uncommon to see some stock firmwares lack certain Linux/Un*x utilities. If anyone wants those missing utilities, s/he can retrieve the source code to rebuilt the firmware to include the missing utilities. This certainly is not a faint of heart and requires some basic and/or advanced Linux/Un*x skills. With it, It is also possible to port any open-source packages into the firmware along with the necessary libraries.

Now, to answer your question. The basic GNU utilities, i.e. cp (copy), mv (move or rename), etc., are all included as part of busybox. Whether they are included in the OS distribution depends on the manufacturer. AFAICT, the Pogoplug OS ought to have these basic utilities.

Thanks. That was a great explanation. I didn't know what pogoplug was based off of, so I had no idea (tried a few commands that didn't work and was sketched out early on).

Since the subject has spiralled off a bit I do have another simple question... Why does a HDD connected (SATA) to the motherboard always spin at full? If I can fix this on the pogoplug I don't even really need WoL... The drive always seems to spin at full (it's not the boot disc) until I cut power to the board (duh) or remove any of the 16V, 5V, or 0V pins to the drive itself... I thought the board would act as the speed controller through the SATA, as I assume is the case with most computers?

Ancient Abysswalker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks. That was a great explanation. I didn't
> know what pogoplug was based off of, so I had no
> idea (tried a few commands that didn't work and
> was sketched out early on).
>
> Since the subject has spiralled off a bit I do
> have another simple question... Why does a HDD
> connected (SATA) to the motherboard always spin at
> full? If I can fix this on the pogoplug I don't
> even really need WoL... The drive always seems to
> spin at full (it's not the boot disc) until I cut
> power to the board (duh) or remove any of the 16V,
> 5V, or 0V pins to the drive itself... I thought
> the board would act as the speed controller
> through the SATA, as I assume is the case with
> most computers?

Most HDD is capable of sleeping, but you need to set it up to spin down when it is not accessed for a period such as 30 minutes or so. The tool to do that is hdparm. Do that and your pogo will consumme less than 5W idling. That's really the reason Pogoplug has no need to have WOL, because it is designed to run 24/7.

Boot into Debian USB rootfs, and find the HDD mount letter, and brand, model...info that is relevant to the HDD. I will help set it up to spin it down.

-bodhi
===========================
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habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ancient Abysswalker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hi, When I got my pogoplug I installed uBoot on
> my
> > pogoplug to run debian because I thought I had
> to;
> > now I reallize this might have been a mistake.
> > Pogoplug seems to run a weird proprietary
> version
> > of linux, is this right? Can I run regular
> > commands like move, copy, link, etc? It is also
> > essential that I can set up some form of
> > Wake-on-LAN/WAN, so I need to be able to
> install
> > the required modules and be able to enter
> > hibernate/sleep/standby. Can this be done in
> stock
> > pogoplug, or is Debian required to do this kind
> of
> > thing?
> >
> To answer your question, let's take a closer look
> at what is a Pogoplug OS. It is nothing but just a
> Linux embedded OS based on
> BuildRoot -- a
> tool that simplifies and automates the process of
> building a complete Linux system for an embedded
> system, using cross-compilation. In it, it has
> busybox
> -- a Swiss Army Knife of Embedded Linux --
> software that comprises of many Linux/Un*x
> utilities in a single small executable file. This
> includes cp (copy), mv (move or rename), tar, etc.
> Manufacturer for Linux embedded devices with a
> limited internal storage, like most old WiFi
> routers, will strip down to not include some
> unnecessary Linux/Un*x utilities in its firmware
> fit into the internal storage. Because of that, it
> is not uncommon to see some stock firmwares lack
> certain Linux/Un*x utilities. If anyone wants
> those missing utilities, s/he can retrieve the
> source code to rebuilt the firmware to include the
> missing utilities. This certainly is not a faint
> of heart and requires some basic and/or advanced
> Linux/Un*x skills. With it, It is also possible to
> port any open-source packages into the firmware
> along with the necessary libraries.
>
> Now, to answer your question. The basic GNU
> utilities, i.e. cp (copy), mv (move or rename),
> etc., are all included as part of
> busybox.
> Whether they are included in the OS distribution
> depends on the manufacturer. AFAICT, the Pogoplug
> OS ought to have these basic utilities.


FYI, buildroot is only one of the build tools. Pogoplug could have been built by that or any other build tools. Stock Pogo OS is Linux 2.6.x.

-bodhi
===========================
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2016 11:54PM by bodhi.

Ancient Abysswalker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the subject has spiralled off a bit I do
> have another simple question... Why does a HDD
> connected (SATA) to the motherboard always spin at
> full? If I can fix this on the pogoplug I don't
> even really need WoL... The drive always seems to
> spin at full (it's not the boot disc) until I cut
> power to the board (duh) or remove any of the 16V,
> 5V, or 0V pins to the drive itself... I thought
> the board would act as the speed controller
> through the SATA, as I assume is the case with
> most computers?
>
I can't speak for the stock Pogoplug firmware.

I have a Pogoplug Pro 02 flashed with Bodhi's uboot. I have configured it to boot off of an external storage attached to either USB and/or SATA port, respectively. If no storage is available from any external storage, it will default to boot off of the internal stock Pogoplug firmware. Currently, I have my Pogoplug Pro 02 offline (already have a Seagate GoFLEX Home to serve my needs). When I had it up, it was running a self-built OpenWRT firmware to serve my needs as a NAS, a printer server, a digital PBX system (using FreeSWITCH + FusionPBX GUI package), etc. I also included an HDD utility package called hd-idle + its LuCI GUI package. The latter allows me to configure my Pogoplug (through LuCI GUI) to spin its HDD off after X minutes of no activity. I tested this with a 2.5" 2 TB SATA HDD without a problem.

So I would just use the command sudo hdparm -S [time in seconds divided by 5] /dev/sdX and this would slow the HDD at sdX after said time of inactivity? Odd that this isn't done automatically... Is this done by default on the pogoplug linux implementation? Or is it just not enabled default on the board?

Also, if hdparm is already something implemented on the OS level, why would habibie's suggestion of hd-idle be used? Looking at them both (briefly at work) they look like they accomplish the same thing?

Ancient Abysswalker,

> So I would just use the command sudo hdparm -S
> [time in seconds divided by 5] /dev/sdX and
> this would slow the HDD at sdX after said time of
> inactivity?

Yes.

> Odd that this isn't done
> automatically... Is this done by default on the
> pogoplug linux implementation? Or is it just not
> enabled default on the board?

This is the internal setting of the HDD. Some HDD comes with spin down setting like this. Some don't, as it should never be set in RAID. So it should not be set by Linux defaults.

>
> Also, if hdparm is already something implemented
> on the OS level, why would habibie's suggestion of
> hd-idle be used? Looking at them both (briefly at
> work) they look like they accomplish the same
> thing?

They do the same thing as far as spinning down. hd-idle is just a convenient tool. hdparm is much more at a lower level, so using hdparm needs some more educated knowledge of those options to avoid screwing up the disk with wrong usage.

-bodhi
===========================
Forum Wiki
bodhi's corner (buy bodhi a beer)

Ancient Abysswalker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, if hdparm is already something implemented
> on the OS level, why would habibie's suggestion of
> hd-idle be used? Looking at them both (briefly at
> work) they look like they accomplish the same
> thing?
>
Both the hd-idle + its LuCI GUI are external programs provided by OpenWRT. I prefer to use them over the hdparm applet from busybox. If your Pogoplug already has the hdparm utility and if it works with your external SATA HDD, then I think you should use it.