Pogoplug V3 OXNAS - USB 3.0 on mPCIe - Main thread

habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, looks like we all are into something with
> PCIe2USB3.
>
> I was doing some searches on both AliExpress and
> eBay about SATA to USB3 with a lot of hits,
> but they are all basically USB3-to-SATA and not
> SATA-to-USB3. I wonder if a USB3-to-SATA with some
> proper adapters can be used to convert a SATA port
> on a Pogoplug Pro into a USB3 port.

Yeah that's the gamble. On Pogoplug v3 there isn't SATA port multipliction, which is the prerequisite for a junction box to attach 4 or 5 SATA devices. But if the v3's wireless AzureWave AW-NE762H taken out of the mPCIE (not PCIE, it's the MINI iteration) slot reveals the underlying bus speeds that allow SATA I (it's said to be SATA II), having a USB 3.0 hub could take this where SATAs can't go (at least on this Pogoplug). I wish I had this in my hand right now because maybe you can retrieve files blinding fast over Gigabit, in my case I'm thinking large PDFs and large audio files, not so much movies.

The price is affordable, but the shipping is set to take a long time. I wish you could check out part s like that at a library, see what it does, pay a fine when you don't return it LOL

Habibie you're the master of good deals, can you spy a better deal on that mpcie-to-USB 3.0 card?

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 12:55PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

Mini PCI-E to PCI-E Express 1X Extension Cord Adapter Card with USB Riser Card on Amazon provides not only for "Full-size MiniCard adapter but also Half-size MiniCard by removing extra Full-size extensions." It also says "As PCI Express x1 connector is edge-free / multi-lane, x4, x8 and x16 PCIe Cards are also available. " I think I'll order one to try with my iconnect!

Nice eBay deals too, and I get white-knuckled wondering what will happen if we wait until Black Friday.

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2016 04:51PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

rayknight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FVPITN8/ref=cm_s
> w_r_cp_ep_dp_H5IlybEER6QBG]Mini PCI-E to PCI-E
> Express 1X Extension Cord Adapter Card with USB
> Riser Card[/url] on Amazon provides not only for
> "Full-size MiniCard adapter but also Half-size
> MiniCard by removing extra Full-size extensions."
> It also says "As PCI Express x1 connector is
> edge-free / multi-lane, x4, x8 and x16 PCIe Cards
> are also available. " I think I'll order one to
> try with my iconnect!

This card provides USB 2.0, not USB 3.0.

-bodhi
===========================
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JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sac
> at=0&_nkw=Mini+PCI-E+to+PCI-E+Express+1X+Extension
> +Cord+Adapter+Card+with+USB+Riser+Card&_sop=15]Nic
> e eBay deals too, and I get white-knuckled
> wondering what will happen if we wait until Black
> Friday.[/url]

This is also USB 2.0.

-bodhi
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JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah that's the gamble. On Pogoplug v3 there isn't SATA port multipliction, which is the prerequisite for a junction box to attach 4 or 5 SATA devices. But if the v3's wireless AzureWave AW-NE762H taken out of the mPCIE (not PCIE, it's the MINI iteration) slot reveals the underlying bus speeds that allow SATA I (it's said to be SATA II), having a USB 3.0 hub could take this where SATAs can't go (at least on this Pogoplug). I wish I had this in my hand right now because maybe you can retrieve files blinding fast over Gigabit, in my case I'm thinking large PDFs and large audio files, not so much movies.
>
May be, once the v3's wireless AzureWave AW-NE762H taken out of the mPCIE, just add this inexpensive USB2WiFi dongle to one of the USB2 ports to support a WiFi connection.

First of all thanks for reading the fine print Bodhi, I originally planned on buying one of each of the adapter and USB 3.0 unit down the road, but I can scratch the USB 2.0 unit off the list. This is good.

But that's a secret many people don't know, is that anything can plug into anything PCI but it may slow the whole system down - and given Pogoplug's specs (that I know if) I've wondered if the USB stick up front locks the system to USB 2.0 speeds at boot.

Bodhi, is there a way to know for sure how fast the bus speed is where the old wireless plugged into?

I don't understand if Pogo's system bus speed is dependent (including a direct multiple) or independent of processor frequency. But if on paper the specs are indeed the same as my laptop (it looks that way), then the next experiment would be to boot a Pro off SATA and see if the bus ran faster for the mpcie card. For reference here's the mPCIe-to-USB 3.0 card again.

Now, if I KNEW for sure the new adapter card allowed USB 3.0, and if reading an external drive could yield 100MB/sec over Gigabit, I'd buy two of them now and be happy waiting a month and a half. And buying two additional hubs and make power supply. Totally worth it. But I don't know that.

And no I don't for sure think an OS running off a USB stick will drag they system speed down, because it didn't on the ThinClient running Mint nor Win7 for a while.

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 12:00PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rayknight Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FVPITN8/ref=cm_s
> > w_r_cp_ep_dp_H5IlybEER6QBG]Mini PCI-E to PCI-E
> > Express 1X Extension Cord Adapter Card with USB
> > Riser Card[/url] on Amazon provides not only
> for
> > "Full-size MiniCard adapter but also Half-size
> > MiniCard by removing extra Full-size
> extensions."
> > It also says "As PCI Express x1 connector is
> > edge-free / multi-lane, x4, x8 and x16 PCIe
> Cards
> > are also available. " I think I'll order one
> to
> > try with my iconnect!
>
> This card provides USB 2.0, not USB 3.0.
No problem as I'm planning on using the PCI Express x1 connector for a PCI-e SATA Controller with 4-ports using the Marvell 88SE9215 chipset. Or I could just use the Vantec 4-Port SuperSpeed USB 3.0 PCIe Host Card in the other thread to get 4 USB 3.0 ports.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 02:37PM by rayknight.

> Now, if I KNEW for sure the new adapter card
> allowed USB 3.0, and if reading an external drive
> could yield 100MB/sec over Gigabit

It could with the right USB drive, assuming the adapter is good and behaves IAW the specs.

>
> And no I don't for sure think an OS running off a
> USB stick will drag they system speed down,
> because it didn't on the ThinClient running Mint
> nor Win7 for a while.

The system is not slowed down by the type of drive its rootfs is hosted in. OTOH, It could be slowed down if not setup properly (properly: moving log files to /tmp, swapfile is allocated on a HDD/SDD, ...)

-bodhi
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> No problem as I'm planning on using the PCI
> Express x1 connector for a PCI-e SATA Controller
> with 4-ports using the Marvell 88SE9215 chipset.
> Or I could just use the Vantec 4-Port SuperSpeed
> USB 3.0 PCIe Host Card in the other thread to get
> 4 USB 3.0 ports.

That's not what I have in mind. The extension ribbon is really nice, but the other end should be a small card for USB 3.0. So they all can be inside the iConnect/Pogo-Pro case.


The interesting things I've found:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131871426741
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851298
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851720

This has the benefit: you can use a high quality female-male USB 3.0 cable. But the above configuration will be hard to squeeze inside the case.

-bodhi
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 04:09PM by bodhi.

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The interesting things I've found:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131871426741
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851298
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851720
>
> This has the benefit: you can use a high quality
> female-male USB 3.0 cable. But the above
> configuration will be hard to squeeze inside the
> case.

Nice on many levels - first the card you specify is from Hong Kong and would take 10 days tops.
Another thing is how to get 5v to the pins then, but an external powered hub might also do the trick.
As long at Best Buy doesn't have hard drives for $10 on Black Friday, I'll plan on ordering a Beelink X2 and one of these cards on Black Friday or thereabouts.

So Bodhi are you going to wait or pull the trigger now?

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2016 09:12PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long at Best Buy doesn't have hard drives for
> $10 on Black Friday, I'll plan on ordering a
> Beelink X2 and one of these cards on Black Friday
> or thereabouts.
>
You can go ahead with your Beelink X2 plan. Here is the BestBuy 2016 BlackFriday Ads and I did not see any HDD under $10. Here is the list of all 2016 BF Ads

JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bodhi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The interesting things I've found:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/131871426741
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851298
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/232075851720
> >
> > This has the benefit: you can use a high
> quality
> > female-male USB 3.0 cable. But the above
> > configuration will be hard to squeeze inside
> the
> > case.
>
> Nice on many levels - first the card you specify
> is from Hong Kong and would take 10 days tops.
> Another thing is how to get 5v to the pins then,
> but an external powered hub might also do
> the trick.
> As long at Best Buy doesn't have hard drives for
> $10 on Black Friday, I'll plan on ordering a
> Beelink X2 and one of these cards on Black Friday
> or thereabouts.
>
> So Bodhi are you going to wait or pull the trigger
> now?

No. I have not found what I looked for: a half height mPCIe USB 3.0 card.

-bodhi
===========================
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bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So Bodhi are you going to wait or pull the
> trigger
> > now?
>
> No. I have not found what I looked for: a half
> height mPCIe USB 3.0 card.

Oh, bummer. I don't know what that other unit looks like inside, but excuse a kind reminder, a USB 3.0 card has a high potential to run a bit hot. Not blistering hot, but the next level down if everything's running full tilt. I'm prepared to cut holes or make mine look ugly.

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-

Joey: Right now, NewEgg has this TOSHIBA P300 HDWD130XZSTA 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Desktop Internal Hard Drive Retail Kit US $94.99 - $25 (promo code: ESCFFFM26) = $69.99 + Free S/H.

BTW, I believe this is the BestBuy 2016 BlackFriday Ads.

Niice, Habibie: https://www.bfads.net/Search?q=SanDisk

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-

> Oh, bummer. I don't know what that other unit
> looks like inside, but excuse a kind reminder, a
> USB 3.0 card has a high potential to run a bit
> hot. Not blistering hot, but the next level down
> if everything's running full tilt. I'm prepared to
> cut holes or make mine look ugly.

Me too! I don't mind if it looks ugly, but the iConnect has no room for any thing that protrudes more than 1/4" perpendicular to the horizontal plane (the normal case orientation) , so I would have to run it naked.

The ribbon cable Ray's posted is very nice, in that it costs no room at all, but what's plugged in at the other end must be USB 3.0 to make it worthwhile to modify the iConnect.

-bodhi
===========================
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JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Niice, Habibie:
> https://www.bfads.net/Search?q=SanDisk
>
May be, this Lexar® JumpDrive® S57 USB 3.0 Flash Drive, 128GB, Teal, LJDS57128AB US $19.99 is a better deal?

habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May be, this
> [url=http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/671318/
> Lexar-JumpDrive-S57-USB-30-Flash/?&cm_mmc=Affiliat
> es-_-CJ-_-358129-_-11272891]Lexar® JumpDrive®
> S57 USB 3.0 Flash Drive, 128GB, Teal,
> LJDS57128AB[/url] US $19.99 is a better deal?

To be sure I don't know. But last week I contacted SanDisk and they said the [b]Extreme Plus[/b] is the only Sandisk (non-SSD) product with wear leveling. So it's practically made to be used with an OS running on it.

As for Lexar, the 2.0 USB stick wasn't reliable in my tests but I can't say for their 3.0 version.

Other than that I'm inclined to comment on BestBuy's Black Friday external hard drive prices which are unchanged from any other time of the year.

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2016 03:54PM by JoeyPogoPlugE02.

Joey,

> Another thing is how to get 5v to the pins then,
> but an external powered hub might also do
> the trick.

Can you find this cable: USB 2.0 male to 4-pin female (to use one of the USB ports on the plug to suppy that 5v power)?

Ah! this might be it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142053781091

-bodhi
===========================
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2016 04:27PM by bodhi.

bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joey,
>
> > Another thing is how to get 5v to the pins
> then,
> > but an external powered hub might also
> do
> > the trick.
>
> Can you find this cable: USB 2.0 male to 4-pin
> female (to use one of the USB ports on the plug to
> suppy that 5v power)?
>
> Ah! this might be it:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/142053781091

No I don't think you want molex... one sec

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-

JoeyPogoPlugE02 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bodhi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Joey,
> >
> > > Another thing is how to get 5v to the pins
> > then,
> > > but an external powered hub might also
> > do
> > > the trick.
> >
> > Can you find this cable: USB 2.0 male to 4-pin
> > female (to use one of the USB ports on the plug
> to
> > suppy that 5v power)?
> >
> > Ah! this might be it:
> >
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/142053781091
>
> No I don't think you want molex... one sec

Rigth! on closer look, it might not be molex. But if it fits, it would work.

-bodhi
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2016 06:15PM by bodhi.

I've been trying to work on my new pogo mobile, but it's without ssh. The USB to TTL adaptor I ordered is on it's way but not here yet...

It seems the Pogo project / website is on temporary life support. They never sent me a conformation email for registration, which may be needed for ssh activation, not sure. I registered my new v4 and it works, but as others have said, no USB activation available. Tried the "curl https" back door dropbear command, but https wouldn't work. http in a browser gets me into a hardware and log monitor interface but can't actually do anything from there without https. My first Pogo was registered years ago, and no issues enabling ssh on it.

While waiting, I ordered 2 new Pogo Pro's (an 01 and 02) from Adorama because I couldn't pass on the $10.00 price and they don't need soldered for TTL like the v4's. I priced a Goflex Home, but it was over $50. I'm poor until I get back to work, so I'll stick with the low dollar stuff for now.

Also took Alpine Linux for a spin in vbox for something different. It seems pretty cool, more of a tiny embedded Linux system that's security hardened than a typical x86 system. https://alpinelinux.org/about/ They support both ARM and x86 platforms. Trying to figure out some of the differences and whys of Linux on ARM vs x86.

Do you guys know of any Linux distros designed from ground up for low powered ARM stuff? Do the experts in this field just put together a custom Linux os for each hardware and application? You guys think of any advantages over what I'm already familiar with, Arch based that's recompiled, configured, minimized and packaged in an image for ARM?

JeffS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you guys know of any Linux distros designed
> from ground up for low powered ARM stuff? Do the
> experts in this field just put together a custom
> Linux os for each hardware and application? You
> guys think of any advantages over what I'm already
> familiar with, Arch based that's recompiled,
> configured, minimized and packaged in an image for
> ARM?
>
You may wanna try OpenWRT/LEDE.

JeffS by the way, Bodhi's boot implementer can overclock that Pogo a bit.

As for Arch vs Debian, here's an excerpt from a quick review I did a year ago for people even newber than me:
"
Arch Linux: Arch aims to provide only the raw essential skeleton of Linux and therefore lacks muscle, a circulatory system and a f__kin' brain. I have it running on a PogoPlug and that's only with explicit install instructions and like 4 tries [Eek!] If you can get it running and make backups then all should be fairly well.

Debian Linux: on it's own it's about the same size as Arch but has muscle and steroids on that skeleton. Honestly it makes regular Mint/Ubuntu feel like they were in a VM the performance is so powerful. Many flavors.
"

=========
-= Cloud 9 =-

JeffS,

> Do you guys know of any Linux distros designed
> from ground up for low powered ARM stuff? Do the
> experts in this field just put together a custom
> Linux os for each hardware and application? You
> guys think of any advantages over what I'm already
> familiar with, Arch based that's recompiled,
> configured, minimized and packaged in an image for
> ARM?

Look at the latest Debian kernel and rootfs:
http://forum.doozan.com/read.php?3,23727

This Debian system is as a good system as any for low power ARM stuff. Linux is not needed to be customed for each hardware and application. However, there is some specific board/SoC characteristic that each type of SoC/board needs to have a separate DTS file to tell the kernel how to activate the hardware devices on a specific box. This is as portatbe as it gets. The same (for example, armV5te, armhf, ...) rootfs can be used for all hardware that use the same ARM architecture, but the kernel has to be built for a specific SoC.

The Debian system I've released in the above link is pretty much the same as Arch, which you are familiar with. If you are well verse in building kernels, you can use my patch and build your own kernel. This patch is necessary, since most of the patch implementation are not in mainline Linux Kirkwood yet.

-bodhi
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2016 02:31AM by bodhi.

Hey habibie,

I could not care less what your preference is, but ... if you'd promoted Arch over Debian, it would make more sense :) OpenWrt/ LEDE ... is not much.

BTW, I would not recommend people switching to Arch either if they don't know the exact reason why they prefer that.

-bodhi
===========================
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bodhi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey habibie,
>
> I could not care less what your preference is, but
> ... if you'd promoted Arch over Debian, it would
> make more sense :) OpenWrt/ LEDE ... is not much.
>
TBH, I am not sure I do understand exactly what you meant. But, simply put, Jeff wanted to know any Linux distros designed from ground up for low powered ARM stuff and I thought both OpenWRT and/or LEDE would give him more selections to choose. AFAICT, either OpenWRT or LEDE is designed from ground up for any Linux embedded system, including any low powered ARM system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2016 07:47AM by habibie.

I want to say thanks and I sure appreciate all the info I'm getting. Seems I've stumbled into a great community here!

The pogo was my first time looking into an embedded Linux system. It was fun while it lasted and I would like to learn more now. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the differences I found with the stock pogo os vs my Arch desktop systems.

I'll definitely look more into Debian and install it on some hardware. With bodhi here willing to answer questions and as much as he knows the system .... perfect opportunity to learn more as I see things.

I started Linux with Ubuntu but never really learned the system. Tried a ton of different distros back then before settling for Arch. It seems the biggest difference in distros from user perspective is package management and now with systemd, the "init plus everything" systems. Then the external stuff related to tools (as in archiso for arch x86) used to build the systems, how the community works, etc. I'll have to get familiar with Debians package manager to start with. I do agree with the lack of a centralized "brain" regarding some distros and how it affects things.

It's kind of awesome how modular the Linux kernel and support software is to be useable in all the different roles from tiny embedded systems to full bloat excess power and storage desktop systems.

The conversation you guys are having on inexpensive little hardware adaptors is also interesting! I have a feeling that getting into this embedded stuff has the potential to take my Linux hobby to a whole new level.

habibie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bodhi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey habibie,
> >
> > I could not care less what your preference is,
> but
> > ... if you'd promoted Arch over Debian, it
> would
> > make more sense :) OpenWrt/ LEDE ... is not
> much.
> >
> TBH, I am not sure I do understand exactly what
> you meant. But, simply put, Jeff wanted to know
> any Linux distros designed from ground
> up for low powered ARM stuff and I thought
> both OpenWRT and/or
> LEDE would give
> him more selections to choose. AFAICT, either
> OpenWRT or
> LEDE is
> designed from ground up for any Linux embedded
> system, including any low powered ARM system.

I meant: OpenWrt/LEDE is not a *general* purpose low powered ARM Linux system. Debian, Arch. Gentoo, OpenSuse, Ubuntu installed on these plugs are.

I want to recommend Jeff to try Debian because it is perfect for these plugs.

-bodhi
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